Connor Schofield  
Basically, I'm doing this assignment, where it's only a small part of my overall thing, but I've got to talk about what I would do marketing a single on a 500 pound budget, which is obviously not that much money. Yeah. In the grand scheme of things, if you probably if you're quite smart of it, you probably can, can do a bit. But like, obviously, my kind of know what my approach would be by kind of wanting to ask what, what you would do so that I've got another opinion.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  
Just to sort of argue with my self kind of thing. Yeah. So I mean, I've kind of gone along the lines of digital distribution, this is going to be an artist, that's, that's new as well. So not really any fans or like no sort of scale for anything. So yeah, I've kind of gone with just digital distribution. Basically, what I did with more fire where I did my own research, and reached out to people myself, and then probably gonna allocate a lot of that money just to like digital marketing efforts, no, Facebook and Instagram. But it'd be interested to just hear what kind of thing you would do or how you would apply 500 pounds to like a PR budget?

Becky Mason (SONIC PR)  
Yes, yeah, I feel like it is kind of hard with someone who's just starting out to meet because a lot of them, like we kind of find if somebody has already gone out and kind of got a relationship with a few smaller blogs or stuff from doing it themselves, then that helps us out straight away. Like we typically, we don't deal with that many people who come in and have done absolutely nothing. Or at the same time and like it is a good way to do it. As far as having a name behind you straight away, does make a difference. I mean, I don't know what kind of campaign you would get for 500 pounds, you maybe get a regional campaign would guess you get regional and national for 500. But you wouldn't be looking at getting anything kind of major. So for me, I wouldn't say to splash all of that. On a brass campaign. If you've not done anything in I don't know how digital marketing works, or anything like that. I'm absolutely clueless with all that stuff. But maybe if you would support say, like 300 of it towards PR, it could be worth doing kind of depends. So as it depends on what approach you want to take with it, and what you what you want out of it, really. I mean, because on a press campaign, realistically, you're looking at all the smaller blocks, maybe the likes of like gig sorts, cloud stuff like that. Or, but then again, then because we're dealing with bands at the minute, we've got like 100 followers, and they get like line of best fit and stuff is just hard to say

Unknown Speaker  
is it's the I think this is kind of it's a really open ended conversation because it's all down to there's so many variables with everything. Like when I did the first more fire song myself, I got the got playlist ID by ID. And I know that I've kind of got a bit of background with doing chores and stuff, but I felt like it was a new artist that didn't mentioned yours in my press release. Yeah, so But then on the same at the same time. You might think that like, like DIY, Id magazine, and like these, that's great threats, but it didn't. It didn't equal rights, a good streaming, or necessarily good engagement. So it's always a but then the authorised that will have got those things and it would be like, Whoa, this is the coolest thing in the world.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, that's the thing. It's kind of hard, isn't it? Because it's like I always say with the blog as well and like why am I doing this to people actually read reviews, like who's going to go on a website? And then you're the stranger, the stranger I've never met has said that this song is good. So I should listen to it like the chance of actually having a really slim, which is a bad thing to say from a PR perspective. But that's just actually how it is. I mean, I'm not one I personally don't read things based on what other people say. I listen to things if I come across them naturally.

Unknown Speaker  
It's an interesting thing, isn't it? Because it's like I'll read an interview. For sure. I like I think interviews are good. Not a piece of press but like if if DIY post my song and line whatever post My song and someone else posts my song. And all they're doing is copying and pasting the press release. is kind of like, I don't know. I don't know, doesn't really do anything.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, I think, I think as opposed to those ones for starting out, it's better to go with like local blogs, and all people who you can build an actual relationship with and do a more personal feature with, because they will also have people who are just their friends. So they'll read it, and they'll listen. And it's case of people just mention it, like you say the digital thing is probably better, because I always say, like, people always say why you share in like songs on Instagram, nobody cares, or whatever. It only takes somebody to click through a story and that song to automatically start playing. And then think I like that. What is it? Yeah. Oh, no, I think that is probably for somebody who's not done anything. I think stuff like that is probably more worthwhile. But it also wouldn't hurt to do a small campaign with press, if you can do it within the budget.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, I mean, like, our regional campaign starts at about 350. So it is doable. But I know, we are a lot cheaper than a lot of places. What's the difference between regional and national in terms of like, do you just sort of you get where the artist is from, and you just approach those their local things by pay? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  
I'll go kind of so our regional things we do student press, all over the country, and then any regional publication, so like local magazines, like, it doesn't have to be local, that we kind of pitch it to them all over the country, what we focus mainly on the local ones to the artists. And then it's just kind of things if we're doing regional, we won't pitch to the big sites like enemy class, DIY, all that. We just don't include them. It's like small blogs, small blogs, magazines, newspapers, student media and stuff. But at the minute, like regional press pretty much doesn't exist. And the lines are like, the lines are so blurred between regional blogs and national blogs. So we're kind of you end up doing the same thing. The both of them really.

Unknown Speaker  
That's interesting. An interesting point as well, because I even remember back to this, and this might be just good feedback for like you guys, as well. But when whenever we would run a campaign with jaws with you guys. We'd always go with you guys before a tour, I think because it would just hit everywhere we would go in. Yeah. The students were seeing it. And it was always it always paid off for the price. Yeah, but we've regional. Because regional, it's like your expectations can be like so so not regional, nationally, they like locally, it's kind of like you know what you're going to get? Yeah. And it's quite it's harder to sort of miss the mark of it. Because like, I don't know, you know, what you're gonna get with it kind of thing, but then with when you're doing it nationally, or you can do is reach out to clash and DIY and hope that they like it. And people pay more for it. But don't it's more risk, isn't it?

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah. It's like we get people coming towards who are like, Here's 500 pound we've not done anything, but it's a national campaign. Can you get was in Pitchfork, like? No,

Unknown Speaker  
like?

Unknown Speaker  
Absolutely not. Can we have a premiere with this? Can we ever come up with that? And it's like, nobody does from us anymore. Nobody cares about. Every time someone says the word premier part of me dies. It's just

Unknown Speaker  
not how

Unknown Speaker  
people don't research PR before they go into it, which I think is the main thing that people should be doing. But like you say, like, we usually specialise in tours, because you get in previews in local sites with the shooting media media in local papers, like it only takes one to pick up a newspaper and see Oh, this is on tonight. I've got nothing else to do. Let's buy a ticket.

Unknown Speaker  
I know, with jaws as well. Sorry to interrupt you. I always felt that like, because we would even I hate doing it. I would always just do all the interviews that they were sent through all the press on the day of geeks as well, but I feel like because it was mostly with students, they really appreciated it. Yeah. And they became fans just from the fact of like, they managed to get like girls to talk to them sort of thing.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, that's a really big difference. Like, I mean, like, even from my perspective with the blog stuff, like I have interviewed so many bands, and you'll turn up and they'll just be so rude. Yeah, and you'll go you'll go away, haven't been a fan of them. And then you're like, Oh, I don't like them anymore. Because they just spoke down to me like I wasn't important enough to interview them and then all those you'll go and they will make like a point of chatting to you and they'll be Give you loads too often you're like, Okay, I like the morning I'll or I didn't like them before, but now I do.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely it's such a weird dynamic sometimes because I've definitely had times on tour, where the last thing I need, or one is like someone coming in and interview me and and you still have to kind of be nice, but then there's times where I'm like, Oh my god, was I rude to that person I hope they don't have like hate me. But then at the same time, like you say like when you I feel like when when you're nice to people remember it more?

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, it's funny. I've never even I've never even thought of it from an artist perspective. And then I was talking about it with him banned from buying up and the other day. And he was saying the same thing like, hey, doing interviews, I really hate them. But it's not fair to go in, and kind of be rude to people. Because you don't want to be there or ever when, like, in fact, they're just there to promote you. Yeah. But I can't even imagine like, I think I'd hate doing interviews. I hate interviewing people, as it is, I think the other way around even more.

Unknown Speaker  
These people that are interviewing you, especially on like the local level, they're so new to it usually. Or they're people that are trying to start their own magazine or people that try it. Like, we literally get kids into you that are like, maybe going to go to uni or even at college level. And in psych you have you can't ruin that. Joey nasta just can't be rude. Even if you have to answer the same question like six times in a row? Like, that's the hardest bit?

Unknown Speaker  
No, that's the worst thing. Whenever I've done when writing interview questions, you I need to ask different questions. But unless you know somebody's personality, you can't go into it with like fun ones. Because you could ask one question, they just go, No, not doing it. I didn't want to a Japanese house. I asked her something on the phone. And she basically told me to do one. And I was like, we don't want to listen to her anymore. But it is like that's the thing with local grass. Like, a lot of them are actual funds, and they're going to give you a really good write up. Yeah, and pour everything into it. And they're going to send it to their friends and stuff on its kids as well because they're like, Oh my god, what God just interview my favourite band. Listen to you nice. Because you've got there all these students living together. Like you bought you bought like five per house. If one of them's interviewed, someone goes, Oh, my God, this is so good. Let's go to the gig, the chances are, they're

Unknown Speaker  
all gonna go. That's it. I think that's, I've never even thought of this. But like, yeah, it's people at that age as well have just gotten. So you find a band and then say, Oh, this band is now my life for six months. And it's just like, and then when then you can just get given that opportunity to interview them. And it's not even like, it's always been a bit weird on my side, when people think of jaws as like, like a big band, you know? Yeah. And it's like, though, they come in interview, and they're excited because they're a fan or whatever. And it's just like, we play that like dungeon 300 cap venue, like it's not, there's not a big thing, like, Look, you're in a dressing room, that's the size of the COVID. With all these people interviewing, you should say, but to them, it's like, oh, my God, like we've got to interview this guy. And yeah, that's a good point. I might, I'm gonna write that one down. Well, I'm recording this I don't need right now. I'm going to include that this might be more valuable at the start.

Unknown Speaker  
Let's say even from my perspective, like I've only started really doing national press now. And when I get something about that, like clash, or DIY, am I Oh, my God, I've achieved something like this is really good. I'm actually a proper PR now. But when you look at kind of who's actually reading it, and who actually cares, it's like, does it actually mean anything? Just because they've got 80,000 Twitter followers? Is anyone actually even clicking on it?

Unknown Speaker  
Like, well, this is, yeah, this is a point I'm going to make in the presentation as well that like, I recently did this with more fire. And I think from a PR perspective, if I worked for a PR. I've done a good job. Yeah, but it's not equated to anything. It's just, I've got it. I've got it in the right place and the right people in writing about it and sort of replying to my emails, but it didn't. I'm pretty sure there's some not that everything equals is meant to equal streaming, but like, yeah, I'm pretty sure. The two songs between them I've got 5000 streams.

Unknown Speaker  
thing is that you think like, Oh, this website, it's got 80,000 followers and they tweeted this thing. So surely you're going to get like 1000 streams from that. So chances are you just don't because We like these what magazines also aren't thinking about when they post things. They're not doing it strategically, it's not promoted. The chances are that what 80,000 followers, they're posting it at nine o'clock in the morning, and everyone's just scrolling straight past it anyway, and who's actually going on to their website? and looking through and thinking, I'm going to pick this up and like, actually look at it.

Unknown Speaker  
It's It's so weird as well since, like, I mean, another thing to consider is that not everyone's got Spotify, and not everyone's got Apple Music, and everyone's on different platforms, but like, in like, when you go back to, like, 20 1415 2012, so it's 2015 when you put song out to like prs, it was always with a public SoundCloud link. And that would be that's that would be what people would post not like Spotify link or not the like, the smart URL or whatever, it would always be SoundCloud, and you'd get like, I don't even know like you'd get on DIY magazine. And it would be like, boom, there's 10,000 streams on your SoundCloud out of nowhere.

Unknown Speaker  
I think it's kind of thing as well. There's so many blogs and magazines now like it like people people actually have favourites. I don't know, there's literally that many. I mean, like my, my blog, I literally started that, because I wanted to get into music. And I've not done anything with music. So I'm going to write a blog, something on my CV, and it's still there now, like, I could literally go through the website clicks. And if you looked at them, it's you look at them, and you're like, why am I doing this? No one's clicking on it. Like, I think like we did an interview with the homeowner. And that got like 150 clicks. And like that was with them retweet in it to like 40,000 people who are all like diehard fans and everything. Yeah. And then anything else, it's like, the things that get the most are the small ones, because they're like, their friends and family are clicking on it and stuff. But like, there's some blogs at the minute who are tweeting that, Oh, we've got 2 million views this week and stuff. And I'm pretty sure dry, don't get that many. You don't really know who's honest and who isn't. And from my perspective, I literally sound like I'm a PR going don't get me off. Oh, it's just I personally don't know, if blogs actually equal anything. I think the main thing that comes from DIY and clashing stuff is being able to say, okay, it's backed by DIY, and Gosh, it's just the need, not what they're actually giving you. Like, they could just stick you in a playlist and not write anything. And it's just as good as them sitting and writing a full interview.

Unknown Speaker  
Exactly. Exactly that like, that's, I think that. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure a few of them streams I got worth from just being in the ID playlists, they didn't write anything out a song. Notice that here's the weekly playlist. It has the songs. But then again, who's who's sitting there every week going part ways that Id players,

Unknown Speaker  
you have lots of thing and it's always picked by one journalist. And when you actually see them, you'll be like, Oh, this is gonna be really cool person. And then you find them on social media. And you're like, this is just some random guy sat in his bedroom. It's just, it's literally just names behind stuff and likes. I think being able, I noticed a difference with pitches if you can put in or it's backed by radio one is backed by clash this, that and the other. Yeah, then it does better automatically, because people just assume that it's good. Whereas if you send it and it's like, oh, this tiny blog, who's run by like some young girl in her bedroom, and said, It's good if people will be like, Well, I'm not listening to that, because who's I don't care. So like, I mean, radio plugin would probably be a better place to put your money. But I've also seen people saying that plugins are a waste of time, and it's a complete ripoff. So

Unknown Speaker  
yeah, well, yeah, it's, I mean, 500 coins, you probably not going to get radio login at all. I just, I got my dad to send me some quotes for you that I can reference from and then I forgot the name of the company. I don't know if it's on there. But the per single on our last album was going to be like 1200 plus events per single. And it's just so I don't think we did it in the end. Because we so relationship with radios has been dwindling every year. So yeah, DJs that like us keep leaving stuff. So there's just no point for her for how much money in cost. So is it back in like I think maybe 2013 is when we first went to radio. And it was probably I think this like 900 and something plus the plus VAT and scraped like 1000 pounds and at the time we were like oh my god last so much money. Yeah. And we ended up with like eight or nine maybe 10 ratio. One place that single? Yeah, and it kind of like, the prs on it plays about 80 to 100 quid depending on when you play it. So that kind of used to pay for itself. Yeah. And, and good. I mean, that didn't sound like much attend leaves. But if we we peel one single off the last album and he got one play by he Stevens who we've got a good enough relationship with that we can email him Stevens and say yeah is our new song is I don't need someone to pay someone 1000 pounds to

Unknown Speaker  
do thing and you can go through introducing an average and if you start in our anyway, like everything I've heard about radio is kind of like don't don't bother with a plugger like we've just got a radio plugger on now. And the things that he's been working on lately like to speak very candidly, he's not like not got anything on really that they couldn't have got for themselves. Yeah, and you kind of for a young band, you're kind of thinking like, save your money, like, they'd be better saving it and putting it to another campaign probably and going through the introducing thing themselves. But I think it's a it's a it's like knowing people is always going to be the main thing, you probably have to put in 100 pounds to kind of making a trip to London and actually meeting people and stuff.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah. Going to the show going to some kind of networking event.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah. But it's like, I mean, I'm supposed to be on great escape this year for the first time. And I'm kind of like, they have like off the record appears quite good last year for networking stuff. I mean, you could do that, get a train there and back and get a ticket for 100 quid and probably do better than you would pay him for a campaign. At that level.

Unknown Speaker  
That's a really good idea. To be fair, especially something made the greatest game where it's just such a, you don't even need to plan any kind of meetings, you can just talk to people.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  
They'll be like, Oh, the biggest label in the world.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, that's the thing. That's the disadvantage that I have been up here. It's like, there's nobody here. Everyone has gone to London. And like, Why Why is everyone in London come back? But I mean, I think great escape will probably cost a lot. But like, say, like off the record, even things like.to dot and stuff like that?

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, that's not great.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, it's just you never know who you're gonna meet. It's just having the confidence to go up and speak to people.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, I'm quite lucky that my, my dad's really, really good at talking to people. So any of these kind of networks and things that we've been invited to I just kind of stand next to him. And yeah, and then like, the people are happy to have met someone from the band, but then they're talking to him. And it's just so easy for me. Because I can go just go to people and talk to them like that, especially. I don't know, in those situations where it's just a room full of people.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, it's when you don't know who people are. And you kind of see people going, Oh, hi, what's your name? What do you do? I'm like, how you doing that? Like, it could be anybody. I don't know what I'm supposed to say. Am I supposed to talk to them with that? I've just started out NPR who you? Like, how do you start a conversation? I'm really bad at it. And it's something that's probably like the one thing that I struggle with, I feel like if you're in a band, and you go into things as like the whole band, it's a lot easier if you're not on your own.

Unknown Speaker  
Yes, it's true. This is true.

Unknown Speaker  
This is probably a case of networking. I mean, even by emails, even social media, just like if you want if you're starting out and you want to get on blogs, you've only got to like actually retweet the other posts that they're doing, or reply to them. Or just make a genuine email. Don't send like email where it's like, Hey, I really liked your blog insert, like the last post that you've just posted. I really liked this. It was great. And the name of the blog, a few lines. Okay, it's time I think more than anything,

Unknown Speaker  
is is something there's something to be said for like. Just being genuine, isn't that? Yeah. I've got I've written down some questions for another friend. I'm calling who works. He works at like a digital marketing thing. You know, Liam? Liam, James ward.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, I do. Haven't seen him in a while.

Unknown Speaker  
So they he, he basically does social media and grow a question about like, how important is kind of like, right, cuz you can't like be live and you can't, you can't do live shows and can't do networking the same anymore. Right? How important is social media now to split between like, planned kind of relevant content, and like genuine personality

Unknown Speaker  
because that's the I think

Unknown Speaker  
it's so hard when you see like, because you see funds, kind of some of them go too far with being themselves. And you read it and you're like, Oh my God, he's got to complete numbers. And then some of them are just like so planned that you can just tell it is this even them posting it? And it's like, It must be hard to get the balance. Right?

Unknown Speaker  
Exactly. Especially now, when you can't be can't go out and be yourself. You have to be yourself on Instagram and Twitter. But I think in terms of I think you've basically we've spoke about everything I find really needed, wanted to speak to you about my other questions and more sort of sort of IT people more like marketing things. Have you seen anything that's like? What's like the most creative thing you've seen through lockdown? for in terms of like, just that abandoned stone or an actor's done?

Unknown Speaker  
That's a good question. I've seen I've seen so many people trying to get into Tick Tock but doing so badly on it. And it just becoming a complete embarrassment. I saw one the other day, and it's this band. And I think they're called the horror. I keep getting emails about them. And they keep covering viral Tiktok songs on Tick tock, but it's like painful to watch in a way. I mean, I think live streams, live streams and stuff. I mean, I personally don't like them. I think the boring. You're, I suppose there's some ways you could make them interesting. If you think about it hard enough. I mean, that working men's club did a socially distance takeover it. Yes. And they branded the entire building. They kind of the whole outside of the building was painted with working men's club all over it, which was quite cool. I don't know how many tickets actually sold. I think they sold out. or? Yeah, stuff like that. I mean, I always think I was always thinking of like, creative things to do with the magazine and stuff. But it's

Unknown Speaker  
hard, isn't

Unknown Speaker  
it? Yeah. I mean, that yeah, this year, this literally seems like Tick Tock. I did a sound city music business was at the start of this year, and they were like, you need to get on Tick Tock get checked out. And I was like, No, absolutely not. And, but even that that's the thing. I think if it happens naturally, then it works. But all these people trying to do it a kind of making themselves worse. Um,

Unknown Speaker  
I've been I've been talking to do you know, Reagan music label?

Unknown Speaker  
I think I've heard of it. I don't know very well.

Unknown Speaker  
There's a guy called Sam down there. And he's the manager for managers, Jerry Maxwell. Yeah. And I was chatting to him a bit. Because I've been writing. I've been writing with john Maxwell, and he's got his own. The Sam guy's got his own label, and he wants to work with more fire. So we've been chatting a lot. Yeah. And he was sort of saying that. Like, he's kind of a tick tock believer. And he's kind of like, yeah, we're trying to get with Joey just as much content as possible. And like, just yeah, doing Tick tock, and what I've learned so far, don't ever tell me to go.

Unknown Speaker  
No, I feel like if you're saying age, and you've got a certain personality, it probably works. But I feel like I'm too old for it.

Unknown Speaker  
See, I think if, if I was coming through now, at the age, I was when George was coming through like 1819 years old. I love tik tok. And, like, it's just that other platform to to be on. But now I'm like, 27 it's just like, I've got no enthusiasm for it. whatsoever.

Unknown Speaker  
Even 23 Yeah. And I open it and I'm like, Oh my god, I feel so old. It's horrible. I mean, I think I still think like, I don't know whether it's me I didn't like I'm still 16 but like getting physical things in the post from buttons when you like them is really cool. I remember there was this band called haze, I think it was when I was like 1718 and they were taking pictures on disposable cameras getting them developed. And then writing them with a handwritten note and a CD and sending them to a few people. And I still think stuff like that will go a lot further than a press coming. Especially if you're targeting like younger people. And you want in like, I still think foreign girls are the best audience you can possibly get because they will literally do anything for you. Just a nice idea. Yeah. They were called Hayes with an eye like h AI Zed. He had a song called blue lights.

Unknown Speaker  
I think it was

Unknown Speaker  
I've still got it on in heaven did a little like fanzine as well. That was quite nice. Just stuff like that little like personal things. That kind of gives the band I always think like getting personality across to younger fans. Yeah, always makes such a difference because if they feel like they like know you and they're like friends with you or anything like that they're gonna just buy everything and tell all their friends to buy everything

Unknown Speaker  
not reporting that we know

Unknown Speaker  
if they feel feel like they have a personal relationship with someone who is like cooler than them and above them which is what they will think then they will do anything for you

Unknown Speaker  
it's just

Unknown Speaker  
kids are always the best way to go well kids that sounds really Nazi doesn't

Unknown Speaker  
you're right like we went with the cosine Well, when peace with the both side it was just like the buzz around them was crazy. And then we asked us tours with swim de and we've done maybe like four shows five shows in around like burning urban. Kind of just like classic local bands. Nobody gives a fuck like the only people there maybe like some friends and family and the other bands and then as soon as we did these four or five gigs with windy It was like every night that close their of their like real fans were now like, Oh, this is overband what sounds quite similar who would do yeah, out of this band. And then by the end of that tour, it was like everything was different. And then then we did some shows in peace and then but in laser everything's different again and then just snowballed, but just not like yeah, off like fangirls basically.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, it sounds like when I was like 17 I saw nothing but the eaves like 19 times I'd like they're not even that good. I don't know why I used to follow them everywhere. Like I went to London for the first time to see them stuff like that then got obsessed with their like support bands. And all the kids like the girls who I used to go to those gigs with are still following them all around. You're at now at like 23 which is a bit concerning to me. But they're still kind of flat. They've they will literally fly to see one gig.

Unknown Speaker  
I know it goes I know a girl who's like in a 30s that spot follows suede around.

Unknown Speaker  
Yes sir. Weird Isn't it like some people just never girl of it.

Unknown Speaker  
She's and it's it's quite strange because I She works in fashion PR and she's totally normal person. But like she'll just be like, I mean, not this year, but you've got what you've been up to vote Well, last weekend I was in Prague for suede. And then on Wednesday, I'm going to Paris for suede and UI Okay, it's gonna be exactly the same kick Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  
that's the thing like I could justify fly into like making a holiday out of seeing someone somewhere but not multiple times on one tour.

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah. I

Unknown Speaker  
feel like I've grown out of that now. I feel like working in music has taken all of the excitement and fun girl stuff out.

Unknown Speaker  
It is it is an eye opener, isn't it? Even when you're in a band like the mystery mystery of everything to sell the little tricks vein before meeting and guitar pedals and amps and all of it. You just kind of like Oh, is that simple? Or is that kind of like I don't know there's when you when you buy when you're young when you buy like enemy magazine this like obsess over a band or whatever is. You kind of assume everyone's doing these mad secret things. Yeah. And then you meet them and they're like the most normal people ever.

Unknown Speaker  
Not even cool in the slightest and be like, oh, okay,

Unknown Speaker  
exactly. Alright, well. I'll stop recording now.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai
